rhionnach: (Default)
rhionnach ([personal profile] rhionnach) wrote2005-07-26 07:06 am

Scottish PF in a spin

I've just received my (probably last ever) copy of SPIN, the newsletter of the Scottish and Irish PF. In it is a statement from the Scottish PF Council concerning the recent decision of the Central Council of the PF to abandon the 3 Principles as a membership requirement and to end the vetting of membership applications. The Scottish Council do not like this, and it would appear they will seperate themselves as they wish to retain the status quo.

They claim that the 3Ps never attracted controversy in Scotland or Ireland. They also say that they have never had a problem in recruiting and retaining members, nor with finding the right calibre of officers as needed. Obviously I wasn't the "right stuff" as far as the Scottish PF was concerned, that's why they had to make up the lies about me being "abrasive".

They claim that the 3Ps are essential to their being accepted into the interfaith process and to being allowed to conduct religious marriages, granted recently by the Registrar General for Scotland. They say that they would lose all of these things if they dropped the 3Ps, as it would say that they could neither be trusted not taken seriously. What does that say about the rest of the PF? Or any other Pagan organisation?

It would seem that the Scottish PF are determined to create their own narrow definition of what a Pagan is. They do not appear interested in the fact that there are many different Pagan traditions and paths. They want only their way or not at all.

I cannot see this attitude as being healthy or helpful. I cannot see that this narrow viewpoint can possibly be acceptable to a variety of Pagans. They claim to speak for all Scottish and Irish Pagans but no one elected them, they chose themselves and set themselves up as arbiters of what a Pagan should be. I do not accept their right to speak for me.

[identity profile] istari.livejournal.com 2005-07-26 02:56 pm (UTC)(link)
They aren't worthy of someone like yourself. Don't waste your time with them or stoop to their level.
If they want to compromise and water down their so-called Pagan beliefs in order to please monotheists, then so be it.
Eventually, all the good ones will trickle away and their "federation" will be no more...
Personally, I'd rather be around supposedly "abrasive" heathens any day than those with cotton candy for brains.
;)
ext_13894: Valknut (Default)

[identity profile] rhionnach.livejournal.com 2005-07-26 04:23 pm (UTC)(link)
The good ones are leaving, or never joined in the first place. It's a pity they really can't see what they are doing to an organisation which had potential.
wibbble: A manipulated picture of my eye, with a blue swirling background. (Default)

[personal profile] wibbble 2005-07-26 04:09 pm (UTC)(link)
So if they break off, will they still be able to use the same name and so on? Splinter grounds, traditionally, have take pick a new name.

Also, that would leave nothing stopping anyone starting up a new regional council for the PF - since the /current/ group would no longer be a part of the PF.

All seems very stupid to me.
ext_13894: Valknut (Default)

[identity profile] rhionnach.livejournal.com 2005-07-26 04:21 pm (UTC)(link)
So we can have the Continuity PF, the People's Front of Judea PF, the PF Liberation Army, etc etc :-)

[identity profile] kazsorrel.livejournal.com 2005-07-26 04:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Its funny Muslims don't have official mosques within a defined structure like a church of england. Anyone can set themselves up as an Iman. Okay they have the Quran but they are very similar in structure to pagans and yet they are accepted and we are not.

The PF run around saying they need the 3Ps to be accepted, but those 3Ps exclude many pagan paths. The PF don't speak for me nor for many pagans now.

Just like an individual Iman doesn't speak for all Muslims, there are more than 72 branches of Islam now. Why does our government insist that a religion is not valid unless it follows such a structure as the CofE, when so many religions don't?
ext_13894: Valknut (Default)

[identity profile] rhionnach.livejournal.com 2005-07-26 04:19 pm (UTC)(link)
That is a very good point. I'd be interested in hearing the Scottish PF's take on it.

[identity profile] tanngrisnir.livejournal.com 2005-07-31 11:35 am (UTC)(link)
Its funny Muslims don't have official mosques within a defined structure like a church of england. Anyone can set themselves up as an Iman. Okay they have the Quran but they are very similar in structure to pagans and yet they are accepted and we are not.


I'm not entirely sure that pagans are even as organised as that; after all, although (in theory) any Muslim (male) can set themselves up as an imam, and imamas of different traditions may disagree vehemently (even, perhaps, violently) with each other, my understanding is that an imam is accorded a certain degree of respect and status even by those who do not agree with him. (I could be wrong, of course.)

On the other hand, in the pagan communities, anyone who tries to set themselves up as a "guru" or something which might be equivalent to an imam tends to get precious little respect from anyone except the most clueless of newbies. (Yes, I am thinking of He Of the Orange Bathrobe.)

Why does our government insist that a religion is not valid unless it follows such a structure as the CofE, when so many religions don't?

Does it, though? I've heard some pagans who are attempting to advance a particular approach to interfaith and achieving "recognition" claim that certain things are necessary; I have never heard any government spokesmen or read any official literature which states that this is the case.

It is not only Islam which doesn't fit the hierarchical organisation structure of most churches, the same is true of some other well-known religions. The problems from our point of view are that

1) they are well-known: no one is going to turn round and deny Islam or Buddhism the status of a religion;

2) they are exotic, imports from the East (so is Christianity, of course, but most do not think of it like that), so there is a natural wish to avoid causing offence to those of different cultures;

3) we, by contrast, are not well-known;

4) we, in most cases, are adherents of religions more-or-less indigenous to (Western) Europe — and there is a tendency to see religious value in something from far away, to minimise it from near at hand;

5) we are not helped by having spokesmen who adjust our beliefs to fit in with what they think the religious/political establishments want, or who give the impression that modern paganisms are the spiritual equivalent of the pick'n'mix counter.

I'll start ranting soon if I don't stop there. ;o)

BTW, just realised who you are so I added you to my friends list.